Children: Blessings Or Regrets?

"Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again." (sir-stig) 03/30/2015 at 17:10 • Filed to: Parenthood

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Incoming head thoughts! Sensible family vehicle for your time:

How does a couple decide that they want kids, or that they are ready?

I'm 25, and my wife is 27, so it is a question that is increasingly in the back of our heads. Don't get me wrong, I think kids are cute, and I love my nephew and nieces, but having a kid seems like such a massive lifestyle change that you can't exactly just undo. Add to that fact that my wife becomes an angry bear if she doesn't sleep well (not that I'm much better) and I have my concerns. We both like to travel lots, and we know that having a kid will seriously minimize travel opportunities so that's another factor that we have to consider. Oh, and my nephew is 2 1/2 years old and still doesn't sleep through the night, I think I would go insane if I had 2+ years of crappy sleep.

On the plus side, we would have damn cute progeny, and I think I would be a good dad (I sometimes get frustrated with my dogs something fierce, and I'm pretty lazy to do housework and renovations and stuff), and I think my wife would be good as well.

On the downside, said lack of sleep, not being able to travel, her career would take a backseat for a while (we would probably aim for two kids, but she has hinted that if she doesn't get a girl she have up to four if it provides a girl), and hell we might be terrible parents.

I have said that before we have kids we should take a year off and travel to a bunch of places we want to go (we would stay long enough that we could work part-time jobs to cover the living expenses) and my wife likes this idea. It's weird, because I always thought I would really want kids when I got married, but now that we have been for a few years it seems like I'm subconsciously rejecting the idea.

What are your thoughts on kids, both those of you that have them, and those of you that don't?

Anyone that has group-think authorship feel free to cross-post.

jariten1781 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:22

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What are your thoughts on kids, both those of you that have them, and those of you that don't?

Well, they say: "There's never a right time to have kids"

And yeah, they're probably correct. Every time we've sat down to try and hash it out there's always been some stumbling block. Probably will happen at some point, but so far 33 years in with no spawn.

vicali > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:27

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We had our son four years after our wedding, basically got married, bought a car together, then a house with a yard, then a dog, then started with kids. Our daughter will be two this summer and our son will be four in Oct.

Drawbacks; haha spending money – or time to yourself is done.. I was a detailer and have two filthy cars sitting in the driveway at the moment. The last time I clean out the interior was after my son barfed all over it due to a gravel switchback 'stage' and a breakfast full of blueberries and waffles..

Benefits; raising little gearheads is the best, my son points out all LandCruisers and expo rigs, while my Daughter has mastered the aircooled; dubdubdubdub sound while I drive up front.. I give lessons on braking and throttle and driving line already and they'll be driving stick if it's still around..

Tekamul > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:28

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I have kids.

My first thought is, you need at least 1 morning person on the team. By the time they reach school age, you will need someone that can function before 7 even on the sleepless nights. Every kid is different, but none of mine were reliably good sleepers until they were at least 3.

Second, you can still travel, just not as much. The more adventitious locales can be off limits with young kids. You can still tour Europe, but probably not the Amazon river basin. But it's not too limiting. If you expose them to travel early, it's been my experience they can manage it just fine. I've even done multiple trips of multiple days driving, without little extra hassle.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:35

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Good on you and Madame Stig for gathering information and opinions before jumping into (or out of) this decision without a lot of thought.

It's the most personal decision in the world, beside the fact that it usually takes two people to make. I definitely don't think anyone should be pushed or pressured either way on it; if you are both still on the fence about it, I'd just give it some more time. Experience some of the things you want to do while it's just the two of you, and with time, the answer should become clear. Either you don't want to give up that level of freedom for the time it takes to raise a kid or two, or you're willing to sacrifice that to start a family.

Here's my personal experience: Mrs. addiction and I were married at 22, but didn't have kids until 29. We have three now, and I honestly can't imagine my life without them (I'm one of six, loved being part of a big family, and always had kids in mind for us). I love each of my kids more than I can possibly explain in words, and I love my wife more than ever for giving me such a wonderful family. But don't get me wrong, it's not all daisies and kitties: it is a lot of work and time and mess and drama and heartache (our oldest is only 8...), but it's all very much worth it for the rewards, from my perspective.

I've heard many people say they wished they'd have had kids, or wished they'd had more, but I've very rarely heard the statement made that a person wished they hadn't. Keep in mind that there's always the option of adoption, which you could reasonably put off until you both are well into your 40s.

You're still young, even if you feel like some deadline is approaching - take your time, and you'll make the right decision for the two of you.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Tekamul 03/30/2015 at 17:36

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My first thought is, you need at least 1 morning person on the team. By the time they reach school age, you will need someone that can function before 7 even on the sleepless nights. Every kid is different, but none of mine were reliably good sleepers until they were at least 3.

Well that rules us out haha.

crowmolly > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:44

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Everyone's experience will be different. You have dads that end up being really lazy or absent, moms that fight depression or get too controlling, in-law meddling, etc. It can be tough, no doubt.

That said, from my experience it was completely life changing. I still care about the things I cared about before starting a family, however my priorities are very different. Having fun as a family trumps a lot of individual activities to me. Stuff like Easter egg hunts, town parades, going to the zoo, etc were not even on my radar until I had a kid. Now I love going because my little girl can't get enough. I have fun by watching her flip out and get excited. My toy car has sat for 9 months since I was doing a lot of family stuff. And I didn't really miss it. There was a time when I swore I'd be buried in that car.

I guess my advice to you is this:

Before you "pull the goalie", make lists of stuff you want to do both individually and as a couple and figure out what's doable. Then do it. You can't skip off to Aruba for 10 days very easily later, and even if somebody watches your kid you will still be thinking of him or her. Kids are also expensive and it's hard to justify a set of $1000 headers when day care is $1500/mo.

Don't judge your parenting skills now because you have no frame of reference . Even people with nieces/nephews/little siblings/babysitting experience don't have an idea IMO. I feel it's very different when they are YOURS.

The sleep stuff is probably tolerable. My kid didn't sleep through the night for 10-12 months. Neither did any of my co-workers kids. You learn to deal.

Your relationship with your spouse will obviously change. However that's not necessarily good or bad. Chances are it will be better, because you will need to be more of a team.

Just my thoughts of course. Your mileage will vary.

E92M3 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 17:58

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If you wait till you're "ready", you'll never have them. That could mean financially, emotionally, physically, etc depending on who you are. I was 31 when my son was born, and sometimes I wish we had him when we were younger. It can be quite the energy drain some days. I don't see how people in their 40's have babies. It took him a good 2 years to sleep 8 hrs. In the beginning he wouldn't sleep more than 1.5hrs straight. Kids definitely change your life overnight. Your priorities change, there's no time to be selfish. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't think one can FULLY experience life without a child. The only true unconditional love on this planet is between a child and it's parents. Couple's fall out of love all the time for various reasons. Your child doesn't care if you put on a few lbs, how much you make, how big your house is, etc their love is unconditional (unless you abuse them or something).

ttyymmnn > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 18:01

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Kids aren't for everybody. I don't know how religious you are or aren't, but the church pretty much tells you it's your duty to make babies. It's not. And yes, it's a huge change to your life. I have three boys, two of them twins. I never had that overjoyed reaction you see in so many people when they learn they are pregnant. It was more a sense of resignation. I'm not sad that I had kids, but I do miss the childless lifestyle. If you think you might want kids one day, I can only encourage you not to wait too long. I was 32 when we had our first son. He's in 6th grade now and I'll be 48 this year. One of his grandfathers is dead, and one grandmother will be soon (ALS). Don't ever have kids because you think you should, or because others think you should. It's only up to you and your wife. But it can be lots of fun, and you get to mold a child in the way you think a good human being should be. I believe there are no good parents or bad parents. There are only parents who try and those who don't.

MrDakka > crowmolly 03/30/2015 at 18:08

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Hold on there, this sleep change sounds really jarring

yamahog > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 18:22

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Personally, I am adamantly childfree, so feel free to take whatever I say with that grain of salt. Kids can be nice and all, and nothing against anyone who decides to have some, it's just not for me.

How did I know it's not for me? Well, off the bat, I never wanted any, and don't see how I would. It seems like so many people treat having kids as just another default box to check after "graduate, get house, get married," etc without considering that you really don't need to have any. I'm perfectly happy as is, and I have no desire to put motorcycling/drinking/fighting/etc on hold for 9 months and then however many years after and mess with my awesome career and life. Honestly, the whole prospect is kind of horrifying to me. I really just don't feel the need to bring a tiny human into this world.

Also, pregnancy can be the fucking worst. Not a factor for you, but I assume at 27 your wife knows it's not all "glow." Some people love it, some are miserable, some people have to be hospitalized for various reasons such as vomiting so much you need IV fluids to survive, some end up with postpartum psychosis. Oh, and if you're in the US, look up how much it'll cost you for a "normal" low-risk birth. This is all assuming you don't have any trouble conceiving, which, knock wood.

Also, to put it bluntly, children put a serious strain on your marriage and finances. As in rock-bottom of happiness. It's not all Kodak moments. Some of the men I've dated (yes, I know, #notallmen) were also incredibly oblivious as to what actually goes into parenting because they were raised under the impression that all a father needed to do was provide and play catch on the weekends.

All that said, this isn't really something you can compromise on. If you both think about it and someone decides YES and someone decides NO... it's not fair to anyone involved. Good luck, and I'll x-post if you want.

yamahog > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 03/30/2015 at 18:27

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but I've very rarely heard the statement made that a person wished they hadn't.

There's a taboo around admitting it, especially with moms, because it makes you sounds like an awful person and it is so hurtful to the kids in question. And that's a big part of my rationale. I know I don't want kids, but if I wasn't sure, I would much rather regret not having them than regret having them. IMO it's not fair to the kid to place that bet on your happiness.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > yamahog 03/30/2015 at 18:33

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Very good point - thanks for sharing it. If you don't mind my asking, when did you know for sure that you didn't want kids?

Off topic: Car is built? Sweet! When's your delivery date again?

yamahog > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 03/30/2015 at 18:50

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No problem! Kinda like my not being straight, it was always there but as a kid I didn't have the proper words to articulate what I meant. I didn't even play with dolls growing up, didn't babysit, and thought something was wrong with me because everyone said I'd change my mind. Fast forward, got older, never did change my mind, just got more and more stressed about the possibility of getting pregnant accidentally. I had a serious long-term boyfriend who wanted to get married and have kids because "that's just what you do" and I just could not see myself being a parent, let alone the type of mother he'd want for his kids. I had a panic attack trying on engagement rings and when we broke it off I never looked back.

Luckily I was able to find a surgeon to give me a tubal ligation at age 24 without much hassle, and my life is so much better for it! My dad (bless his heart) asked if I'd still get my period... but other than that horrifying glimpse into the inadequacies of 80s sex ed, everyone who knows about it is chill. As you can imagine, I generally keep it to myself though, but I do have to smile every time a well-intentioned coworker says it's a good idea I get all the fast car stuff out of my system now before I have kids.... lolllll. My SO also doesn't want kids and his family is absolutely fine with grandpuppies and grandhogs.

And yes! Build date was Saturday! Depends on how quickly they haul it out here, but within the next 1.5-2 weeks :D

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 19:02

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My boys will be 14 and 16. There have been highs and lows. But it's good man. I am glad to have totally normal kids. No wacky health issues no learning disabilities. I have never taken that for granted. My bro in law has downs.

People over think it too much. Have some kids. Billions of people are doing it! You will be fine.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 19:18

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"How does a couple decide that they want kids, or that they are ready?"

There are a number of ways this is done:

1. You're doing it without protection and it feels sooooo good and suddenly a raging orgasm wells up in you... and you didn't pull out in time. And you don't live in a place where you can get Plan B.

2. You're doing it, you're wearing a condom. But then when afterward, she takes the condom and puts the semen in her without your knowledge.

3. You pierce the condom ever so slightly and put it in. Then after you're done, 'aw shucks, the condom broke'.

4. You followed the Catholic Church's birth control advice.

5. You discussed it and you both agree that you want or wouldn't mind having kids now... so you deliberately do it in careless fashion.

6. Her biological clock is ticking. Either give her a baby or GTFO!!! Here is a list of her most fertile days. You are obligated to perform your duty on those days.

"Add to that fact that my wife becomes an angry bear if she doesn't sleep well (not that I'm much better) and I have my concerns. We both like to travel lots, and we know that having a kid will seriously minimize travel opportunities so that's another factor that we have to consider. Oh, and my nephew is 2 1/2 years old and still doesn't sleep through the night, I think I would go insane if I had 2+ years of crappy sleep."

If you both know you want kids, biologically it's better to have them when you're younger. And when you have kids, you will have some bad sleep. You just have to deal with it. But at the same time, dealing with it does not make abuse (verbal or otherwise) okay. And I'm talking about it going both ways... woman on man and man on woman.

But the key question... Do you know you want to have kids? If it's yes, then start working on it. If you do it sooner, then you have greater chance of getting to know your grandkids while you're still active/able-bodied.

And one good thing about travel, when kids are really small, they typically get free admission/passes for many things. Not sure how much that applies with flying.

"On the downside, said lack of sleep, not being able to travel, her career would take a backseat for a while (we would probably aim for two kids, but she has hinted that if she doesn't get a girl she have up to four if it provides a girl),"

Regarding the career thing... the solution to that is to split the maternity/paternity time off. In Canada, you get a year off... and it can be split 50-50 between the husband and wife. If I had to do it all over again, that's what I would do. I have observed that many women don't want to give up any time off. Though I have encountered some who want to get back to work as soon as is feasible (like the CEO of Yahoo... who only took 2 weeks off).

I have two kids myself (I'm a father)... and I had my son when I was 27 and my daughter when I was 30. I don't regret having kids at all... or having them that young. And I discovered a strong paternal instinct in me that I never knew was there until I held my son for the first time.

Also note that while growing up, I was the youngest in the family... so I had NO experience looking after a younger sibling.

Marriage on the other hand... given I'm divorced now (have shared 50-50 custody), I wish I had done some things a little differently there.

"I have said that before we have kids we should take a year off and travel to a bunch of places we want to go (we would stay long enough that we could work part-time jobs to cover the living expenses) and my wife likes this idea."

I did the same thing. Go somewhere that that is not kid-friendly... like Las Vegas. You'll still go on vacations after the kids arrive... but it will be kid-friendly places.

desertdog5051 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 19:19

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When you are ready for the many years of child rearing, you will know.

Xyl0c41n3 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 19:35

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Hmmm, kinja is being weird. It's being kinja, so if you've already received a comment like this, ease disregard, lol. But I've shared it to GT for you. Let me know if you need any help keeping an eye on it.

Sweet Trav > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 19:57

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I've decided that I will not have kids. My current SO does not want kids either.

I love all the 'Dad stuff' hockey coach, building a car with my kids, helping shape a young person. But I don't want the responsibility. I'd rather be branded as "selfish" than resent my child for taking all of money and 'cool' away (ask Yamahog, I don't have much to start with)

I have three nieces and nephews. I can take them for a weekend whenever I want. I'll probably be the one who puts up half the money for my niece's and nephew's first cars, the other half coming from my parents, my sister and her husband probably shouldn't have had three kids given their income and history, so I am going to take it upon myself to help them out with the big stuff and take them for weekends and be the proud doting Uncle.

If you want the 'dad moments' without the 'dad responsibility' there's always a need for high school auto-body volunteers, coaches, and volunteers in general. Don't be afraid of what others think, just do what you think will make you the happiest. I know sometimes my sister calls me up crazy and cussing about 'her little monster's' aged 9, 2, and 1. and she has told me frequently that if I'm going to have kids to 'stop at one' that tells me kids probably aren't for M e. There is also a part of me that realizes that I have some pretty awful genes. Cancer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, mental disorder, heart disease and Alzheimer's run in my family, I don't want to stick another poor sap with my genes.

As for my legacy? I hope I do enough good things so that people talk of me when I'm gone. As for the material stuff, Why? You can't take it with you. I'll either give my estate to my sister's kids my SO's sisters possible future kids or donate it to the ASPCA If the kids turn out to be shits.

In the end if you feel a part of you needs to travel and explore and create to be happy, perhaps kids aren't for you. If you're ready to give up everything that makes you, you and focus solely on raising a child, more power to you. Personally I like my Money and Freedom more. Finance should determine if you have kids if you're on the fence, and I think that the measure of finance is, if you have kids will it affect your hobbies, lifestyle and financial stability. But this is coming from a total pragmatist.

Also some people don't want to have kids because they had a bad childhood and don't want to project that crap on their kids, me I had a damned near perfect childhood and I still don't want kids, because I don't want kids.

Xyl0c41n3 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 20:56

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Ok so kinja is really being kinja.... I'm getting all the replies to your post on my share to GT. Might wanna check GT itself, because it seems kinja is running parallel comments. :/

The Compromiser > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 21:01

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yes.

Next question?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > yamahog 03/30/2015 at 21:13

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Grandhogs - yes! Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and feelings on it.

Can't wait to see the reveal.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 21:28

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Yeah I never thought about it until an older guy in my union said, there is never a perfect, planned time for kids, they just happen and you deal. I guess if you have tons of money it doesn't matter, nanny to watch them when you can't. I'm 35 and we don't have any so far. I would do it now if I could buy a house and have the room. I just don't want it to be a struggle and not give them everything I would want to. So I guess now the question is, do we still have them and struggle? I'm an only child so I think two kids is pretty good, they have each other when we are gone etc.. As for cars, there are plenty cool cars that will baby as you have pointed out. I have a sedan but I would like a first generation Range Rover with an Isuzu diesel swap, that will dog, baby and adventure. I would sell my W123 Merc for that but I won't sell my 240Z, they will only be worth more and if I were to even contemplate selling it I would wait ten years, but I'm not. We have a dog and hes basically our baby, he thinks he is too. My wife and I both just might be more animal kinds of people. I see screaming kids and parents talking in groups with their matching kids crap and the thought of engaging with them over school topics makes me want to flee in terror. My wife is not American so the kids would be bilingual, which is cool too. The sleep thing is an issue for me too, I was in the Marines and I was grumpy for some time, screaming kids flip a switch in my brain and I don't do well with tons of noise anymore. On one hand I know there are plenty of people on earth, needs to be less, on the other hand will I feel bad for not spawning something? My cousins have already continued the family name but they are all dweebs, we need a mini me right? I was in the military and I travelled before and after that, I think I've been to 32 countries, but I still want to see more, I feel like I will never get enough, I have lists of things to do. I tell you money is wasted on some of these idiots I see, I would travel non stop for years. Its a tough choice but I know we are both looking at each other saying, do we really want to do that??

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > ttyymmnn 03/30/2015 at 21:31

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Yeah, my wife is 30 and I am 35, I feel like we need to make a choice and we keep giving each other looks when kids are all running around like wild monkeys screaming and the parents act like its no big deal. We like dogs, its kind of down to money now, I think I would be more open to it if I knew it wouldn't get tough.

ttyymmnn > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 03/30/2015 at 22:00

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It will get tough. But not all the time.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/30/2015 at 22:41

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I have two boys. They are now 8 and 11 and for me, it's getting really fun. When they are little they are sooooo attached to mama. Now we get to plan back packing trips, go paint balling, feel air coming off the wings of the the LMP cars push us off the floor on the pedestrian walks at Sebring...

I don't really believe in 'planning' it. Just get careless with the birth control. Get drunk together a little more often. When it's time, it will happen.

As for traveling, my kids are AWESOME travelers. A shit-you-not, we missed a flight two weeks ago to Florida and had to scrap together arrangements and they didn't freak.

We also raised them to love exotic food so we're not stuck eating cheese pizza and burgers. Indian, Mexican, Lebanese, Japanese, whatever it is, they are game. Food channel is a favorite around here.

You raise them with your values. If you value travelling and such, get a Kelty backpack and take them along (way better than a stroller in the airport).

I must have 1000 miles on mine. I could carry the little one in the pack and lift the other up onto my shoulders and carry both in the mountains in colorado. You don't think about it, you just do it.

Part of it for us is just NOT giving into the 'kid culture' that they only watch their shows and they only eat off their plates plastic zoo animal plates and they only wear the character socks and they only eat the snacks branded by their show....it's exhausting and expensive. Let them have that stuff. In doses. make them eat on the white china plates and learn to drink from a glass. And watch America's Got Talent with you. And racing of course. Lots of sportscar and rally racing. And trophy trucks. Always popular. You may not love Monster Jam, but when you have a three year old, you, yes YOU will love Monster Jam. And remind them for the 87,000th time to move the glass away from the edge of the table.

Sleep. Yeah. That's gunna suck. And sick days. Those suck, too.

We had our kids at 28 so we had a house and a dog and a marriage before kids. A lot like you are doing. Like I said. Get lazy with thinking and planning. Drink a little. When it's time...

lethekk > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/31/2015 at 05:17

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All I can say is that child-free life rocks.

And that the world is overpopulated.

And that I can't count the number of times friends with kids have told us, in all seriousness, not to have kids.

And that my siblings, who can't travel easily because of their children, love to live vicariously through my Facebook page.

Don't have kids unless you truly want them and are 100% prepared for the total disruption of your life.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 03/31/2015 at 10:01

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kids change your life and it's great that your not taking this lightly. For my wife and I we had our first when I was 24 and we had a 2nd last year. I live my kids and they both started sleeping through the night at literally right around 6-8 weeks old.

Yes there isn't much we can do withouth a babysitter, which we don't have. But look at it this way, I'll be in my mid-to-late 40's when the kids are off to college. Young enough to still enjoy doing things and old enough to likely have expendable budget for project car(s).

Do what you want before you have kids but keep in mind you don't want to be an old fart running after kids all day. Find what works for you and don't worry about how others might view your decision

Manuél Ferrari > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 04/01/2015 at 01:34

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If you two really love each other and get along then yes, you should def have kids.

It's a shame if two compatible people that love each other don't have kids.

Too many couples that barely even like each other bring kids into this world. You need to make a happy baby!

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Manuél Ferrari 04/01/2015 at 09:04

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That is true.

Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 04/13/2015 at 16:15

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My wife and I married when I 31 and she was 30. We were married for 5 years and start talking about if we wanted to have kids.

We talked about it and mulled it over. Then we talked more. And more.

We never came to a conclusion that we really wanted kids. We decided that we prefered having dog and traveling.

We're both still happy with our decision 6 years later. Some people have told us we'll be unhappy with that decision when we're retired. I refuse to live my life thinking I might want something 30 years from now.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger 04/13/2015 at 16:32

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Yeah we're honestly still not sure if we do want kids. She is the oldest of two, and her mother will NOT like us choosing to be childfree. But We'll cross that bridge if and when we reach it.

Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 04/13/2015 at 17:18

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Oh I know that challenge. My mother-in-law said to us at a family holiday dinner the she mourned for use because of our decision. Not to mention my own mom and dad who aren't fans. Oh well, you can't live your life trying to make others happy.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger 04/13/2015 at 17:36

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Thankfully I have 7 siblings, so it's only an issue on my wife's side.